Auroral

I’m Tim, Married to Helen and father of three incredibly beautiful princesses whom are also known as monkeys, rascals, pains in the posterior and the loves of my life who I’d move heaven and hell for! I’m also the head of sales and support over at Incsub, LLC for WPMU DEV.

Oh, and I’m an absolutely terrible and extremely inconsistent blogger, don’t say I didn’t warn you! 😉

In February of this year my partner wrote a post on the T-shirt Forums which documented some of our experiences with a company called ‘YES LTD’, well after continuing issues with the machine we purchased from them we’ve decided to ask for our money back which I’m not sure will happen however I would like to archive our experiences with this company and hence will copy my partners original post over from the T-shirt Forums to here, and then continue to document the case as we go along.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t11625.html

Post Dated: Feb 7, 2007 9:54:41 PM

Hi all, well this is my first ever post here, although I’ve been a frequent visitor for at least 6 months now, maybe more I can’t remember. I’ve used this forum for research of DTG, users experience with various companies, and based upon that made the decision to go with DTG Kiosk.

Well first of all I would like to Thank Rodney, and all the members here for all their work and input on these forums, you do a great job and have helped me out no end with everything I’ve read here.

Ok, now I’ve read the forum rules, and I understand it fully I’m hoping that the following will be taken as review of my experience, and constructive criticism, in a view to possibly helping others in the future with their choice to buy either DTG or embroidery products from YES LTD.

Before you read the full post, I would like to say I did still buy a Kiosk and I am pleased with it.

Here is my experience:

Well first of all I contacted many companies for viewing and samples of the machines including end products various machines have made, some companies where slower than others in getting back to me, and some like CAD Systems – Europe’s distributor of T-jet never even got back to after numerous attempts to make contact.

YES LTD, where by far the quickest and most responsive, inviting the next time to come and see the DTG Kiosk, Express and Bullet machines. I was impressed with the white inks, as my business mainly revolves around dark garments, the prints where pretty spot on, they used my graphics to test with along with their own, to show me how our end products can look.

Mark the sales chap there was pretty spot on too, got back to me as and when requested, but then again his job is sales, and every sale is money in the bank.

Right here was the first problem, although the prints were excellent on the eyes, I took them home and washed them to make sure this was the right product for me, ohh dear the prints where sticking together and coming off, I explained this to them, they stated it could be a pre-treat problem, sent me some more out. Same again, and then again.

Now we had a problem, but still I kept faith, I then went down there with the samples which was sticking together and coming off. Upon meeting one of the Directors (I won’t mention his name to save him embarrassment), he kept insisting this had only happened once before with a customer whom came in a few days before me, and that it must be a machine wash problem, I confirmed the setting of my washing machine, 40 degrees, etc, etc, the soap powder used. He then asked if I had used a tumble Dryer, no as my answer. He then insisted it had to be one of these factors and that it couldn’t be fault of the machine, however he would launch further investigation into it. although indirectly he was calling me a lier, and saying the fault must lay with me, but yet all my screen printed stuff in those same washes where fine.

Ok, so I then receive a phone call, “We’ve sorted that problem”, they blamed something I seem to recall it being a batch of inks. I then requested another sample. Great it was perfect, it washed over and over again with no problem.

Ok, so the order went in, I decided on a Kiosk with a view to expansion should the business continue to grow as it has done.

They got the training in, in quick time too and I had the machine by the end of the week, fantastic. I had the machine before Christmas, and the Christmas sales where good on these T-shirts, not to mention the hoods too.

But there were of course teething problems, I told them I was away for a month over Christmas, they said just let them know and they would talk me through the shut down procedure, I did, but they didn’t tell me I needed spare bottles to move the inks into whilst I flushed the system, so hay ho, I had no spare bottles, but the tech guy talked me through how I could do it and leave it standing, The white ink when back into the original bottle, the pipes leading to the head where flushed and clean, the other cmyk inks however remained in the bottle for a month. Hey they said this should be fine.

Ohh when I got the machine, they also sold me a spray gun for applying pre-treat, forgot to change the plug thought didn’t they so it was fine to work in the European two pin plug, but not the UK’s three pin plug. At my expense I bought one of those little adaptors.

Now lets rewind a little to when I first got the machine.

The first prints where good, I use still getting used to the print pro software settings to get more vibrant colours, and all was going good, then about 3 hours in, my prints where looking faded, I tried more pre-treat it was ok, you see they advise to water the pre-treat down 50/50 I find it better to have 75/25 at least I know my prints will be better. but still I had problem with prints, so did a test bar print, noticed some nozzles not firing, called tech support and spoke to Tony he advised how to clean further. I did and it was fine.

Right did all the recommended close down of the machine, then a clean when I’m ready to start again, but hey ho had problems with the print again. Another test print of the bars, and notice nozzles not firing, did a clean it again, it was fine for a short while, then it would start again.

I must of logged over 30 hours on the phone to tech support before Christmas, but hey support was spot on, patient, willing to help, and of course friendly. Well except three of four occasions, when tech support where busy, I left a message and no one returned to my call, so I had to call again.

Anyway this problem of nozzles not firing kept happening, mainly on the whites, but this is more than likely because the white ink was set to multi-shot dot, and I’m led to believe it’s also thicker than the other colour inks.

You wouldn’t believe the amount of ink I’ve had to waste on test prints, yeah there only little bars, but it all mounts up, then there is also the automatic head cleans as well. Boy these inks are expensive the white ink alone for a litre costs £160, I believe that’s something like $300+ – Liquid money ehh.

Ok, I have my break away, a month later I come back.

The same bloody problem, continuous head cleans, both manual and automatic as advised in the correct manor.

Now here is the part that drove me to finally post today, I feel other potential customers to this market should know and it will help in their decision to buy and from which company.

Ok I get a decent size order in Saturday, I close the printer Saturday as you are advised too, Did a few jobs Sunday, and closed the printer as recommended, didn’t do anything Monday except the normal clean and to ensure there was cleaning solution in the bay (where the head sits when not in use). Then early hour Tuesday I went to work on an order (the decent size one), ok there was no magenta firing at all now. I did all the cleaning stuff again, still no joy, and again and guess what again. I then closed the printer and cleaned it as recommended, waited for tech support to open. I called, they were all in a meeting, was told the meeting was nearly over, approx 1 or more hours later, still no reply, I call back again to speak to Andy, he advised me of a way to flush the head, I tried that, no and some of the nozzles then started to fire but not enough, I then called back for more advice, tried that didn’t work, called back again to speak to Gordon, he spoke me though back flushing of the plastic bay thingie above the head (I can’t remember the name of it for the life of me now, lol).

I got more nozzles to fire, but still not enough, we then agreed for me to bring it in the next day, so I did, cost me some fuel too, wasn’t best please about that.

Right we’re on Wednesday now, well that’s if you’ve not fallen asleep reading this, lol. We arrive and Gordon spends a fair few hours looking at it, and hey this guy was spot on. I then had one of the Directors in – You remember the one above which indirectly called me a lier.

I mention all these problems, his tech support are aware of them, he then mentions the head is not covered under the warranty, you can see the ££££ signs in his eyes. It’s £325 for a new hear, approx $640 USD I believe.

This was a persistent problem from the first time it was plugged in, he showed me a sample bar print from when the machine was made available and the bars looked great, but the prints wasn’t.

He then said he would go 50/50 with me on the cost of a new head, he then said he didn’t know what the cause was, but indirectly again implied it was my fault. Do all you readers see the pattern emerging here. Any way we had a heated debate, and brought up all these points, but still he was not budging, I said how about I pay £100, as this was not my fault, he said no of course, and then continued with indirectly calling my a lier again, when I brought this point up he then stated “I’m not having this conversation any more”, you should of seen the fire in my eyes, if this machine didn’t need fixing, well I’m sure you know what I was thinking then and still am.

I’m fuming that I’m having to pay for a persistent problem which occurred from purchase to be fixed.

Now I’m a small business, I don’t let any one touch the machine, after all it cost me approx £12,000 without heat press, and I’m gonna make sure nothing happens to it, heck it got more care and attention than my partner, which she didn’t like lol. (I just did a currency conversion that’s, $24,622.43 USD)
That’s a lot of money.

All in all I have to thank Tony, Andy and especially Gordon the tech support, if it wasn’t for them I would never of used this company.

Although I haven’t mentioned Tony’s name enough, he was there from the start with Mark (sales guy), talking me through everything. And as for the owner of the company, well I’m sure you know my opinion, but I guess it’s your decision. There are as they say always two sides to a coin/story, and if you ever decide to use this company, I’m sure you’ll make your own mind up.

It’s also a shame about the staff member whom resigned from YES LTD today, I guess bumping heads wasn’t his favourite too.

Any way lets sum this one up now, ohh boy what an essay.

The DTG Kiosk, fantastic machine when it’s working correctly, even with all the head aches, I still feel it was the right decision, I would recommend it to others in the industry.

Right, now I guess it’s time to get my first T-shirt off since the new head has been added.

I hope you have all found this post informal, constructive and that it may help in your decision of purchasing a DTG Machine.

Now I have a question, you know my feelings, lol. I’m led to belive that all DTG inks will work in different machines, what company other than YES LTD would you recommend to purchase inks from. Or what about imports from American based company,

Once again thank you to Rodney and all the guys on here for posting, your posts have been a great help to me.

Kind Regards.

Post Dated: Feb 8, 2007 1:26:38 AM

I now just like to add that after the head change, my graphics are now sharp, bright and beautiful, just like the original sample they shown me, but not like what I was getting from my machine when I first bought it.

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A member on their forums then replied wishing my partner luck and thanked him for sharing the experience so far, perhaps though we should of waited a little longer and continued to document my experiences as it was kinda like a roller-coaster ride.

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Post Date: Feb 8, 2007 2:11:30 AM

I hope so too, it’s been a bit of an ordeal. but now the prints are much better, as I said it was never this good when I first got it.

One thing I forgot to mention is I got the Kiosk at the end of November 2006, was away for one month, so it’s only really be used for about 2 months, with it being this new a head problem in theory should not of arose, but hey ho technology ehh, lol.

Thank you John for taking the time out to read my lengthy post, it was going to be longer but I thought I would skip some of the more minor stuff and keep it shorter, lol.

Take care

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There were then other posts from other members and a few replies to my partner, mainly chat about the RIP software, or thanks for posting our experience.

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Post Date: Feb 12, 2007 10:56:05 AM

Ok I have another problem, wondering if you guys have any info or suggestions.

Early in my first post I mentioned their samples after wash would stick together and then as you pulled them away it would rip some of the print off.

Well now it’s happened to some I’ve printed my the DTG Kiosk, I noticed it with a T-shirt I printed for myself, I had the T-shirt on twice, then washed it, and certain parts stuck together.

Info on my designs:

Well there pretty detailed graphics, dark art, Gothic type, and use a fair bit of white ink, but only in one pass using multishot for the white base.

Heat pressed as recommended by YES LTD at 180degrees for 90 seconds. as I said recommended by them.

When this first happened with their samples, I thought maybe it needed a little longer on the heat press or maybe a higher heat, but YES LTD assured me it didn’t, in fact if you read up they tried bunking the blame on my poor washing machine skills.

They then said they had problems with their heat press, once fixed I had another sample which it happened too, then they blamed the inks, and then the last sample worked perfect. <— this bit was before I bought the Kiosk.

So could it be the inks, or heat, or perhaps it needs more time under the heat?

I’ve contacted then and I’m awaiting a reply, just thought I post here to see if you guys know anything I should.

PS the prints look really good now, just not sure about the wash-ability

Post Date: Feb 12, 2007 7:51:48 PM

Hi Tom,

I should of mentioned it’s degrees centigrade (°C) not fahrenheit, I’m not 100% on how 180°C converts to fahrenheit, but I think it’s 356 fahrenheit.

Anyway after speaking with tech support they’ve made a few suggestions as detailed below:

+ Try using less pre-treat, as over use could cause this
+ Try a double press, IE two presses of 90 seconds at 180°C
+ Then try a combination of both if it still doesn’t work.

When the printer was with tech support the other day, they did some print offs then, I have these so will try washing these too and seeing if it happens to them, as if it does then I know it’s not something I’m doing, as you would imagine they did everything correct.

Any how, I’ll try and then re-post here the result, in-case it helps anyone in the future.

Take care.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dc1982

alright gmax21 ive got myself a kiosk from yes ltd i had i a lot of problems my self but working fine now am still losing about 20% of my prints not sure how i think its got something to do with the white base only problem am having at the moment is the price of the ink £950 for a full set of ink all 1 litres do u get your any cheaper
when am curing the ink i use a heat press but make it come down just above the garment i put it on 225 and leave it for about 2 min never had one problem doing it this way and its great for velour hope this helps you mate

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Post Date: Apr 29, 2007 11:57:40 PM

When you lay the white base is it really vibrant?

You still loose some of the brightness, but I’m at a point that’s it’s not really noticeable unless you really take the time to inspect them.

When you speak to tech support, ask for Gordan, he’s been spot on with me, and has taken a lot of time to help.

He also suggested rather than using the Teflon sheet, use a polyester material, and I did, since doing that I’ve noticed of the print feels more like a screen print, ie textured a little.

I still use the Teflon sheet to for the press of pre-treat first.

For some reason since doing this the print hasn’t yet stuck together and ripped off in the wash, perhaps it’s allowing more heat through, I don’t know but also keep in mind when it happened before that my type of graphics are rather intense and use a lot of ink.

I will certainly try your method of pressing too, at least to see the effect it leaves.

Off the top of my head I can’t remember the prices of inks, but there not cheap.

I did have more problems with YES, I had to have the head replaced (all cleaning procedures followed, and pre-treat done in a total separate room), they tried to blame me yet again, you see the pattern arising now, anyway we agreed on a total price which was half the normal the normal price, there was no mention of further labour costs, I even asked is this the total and he said yes, then I got hit with an invoice that included further labour charges.

I haven’t paid yet and won’t until they fix the invoice with the correct amount, but the big chief there likes to try and pass the buck.

Like I said if you have a problem with your printer speak to Gordan or Tony, (I’ve not dealt with some of the other tech support guys there in depth so can’t comment on them) these guys go out of their way to help.

I’m sure if you’ve dealt with all of the guys there you will know whom I speak of in my original post.

I have to say though that we more than likely won’t go back to them for more purchases, this summer we’re looking at getting some embroidery machines, and various other things, but I’ll source this elsewere, and import if I have too, so unfortunately I’ll have to say ‘NO’ to ‘YES Ltd’.

Anyway I’m back to work now. lol

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Now this should give you the gist of the entire thread, it’s not every post as not all was relevant or would of just took up too much space.

Our problems would seem to go away for a short period of time, and then we would have a return from a customer with the same problem, we’d then contact YES LTD tech support and be informed of another process, or to alter something slightly, we’d do that and then again it would happen, or it would seem fine for a while then happen again.

Personally I think it’s because our graphics are quite intensive and use a lot of ink, therefore when curing the ink is not correctly set on the fabric, I say this as the smaller graphics and designs using less inks are always fine.

Either way more money has been lost in returns, p&p, the cost of garments to print on and so on………………………………..

Enough’s, enough it’s time we got our money back so we can re-pay an investor.

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